| Ralph Colaizzi: | | For a question, type ? and wait to be recognized. When finished, type GA. for a followup, type ! |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | OK, everyone knows the procedure? |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Yep. |
| Steve Gale: | | a-ok |
| James: | | Yes. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | First I'd like to welcome Dr White and thank him for visiting our forum |
| Chris White: | | Thank you. I look forward to it. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | I'm sure we will have a great discussion, ready Dr White? |
| Chris White: | | Yes. |
| Bryan Klinck/MA: | | ? |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Ok folks, first question? |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Bryan |
| Bryan Klinck: | | First of all, I would like to say that I am a big fan of your product, especially the ready-to-pitch format. I think that it combines all the benefits of traditional liquid yeast with the convenience and flexibility of dry yeast, as it eliminates the need for a starter in most situations. Anyway, on to the question: Of the 29 brewers' yeast strains that you manufacture, 13 are available to homebrewers only on a limited release basis. Do you have plans to make the whole range available at all times? I ask because I am a big fan of WLP565 (Belgian Saison I), with which I did well at this year's NetWort competition. GA |
| Chris White: | | Great question. We are adding 13 new strains as of Dec. 4th., for a total of 33 plus 2 platinum. Most of them are from this years platinum, including 565 |
| Steve Gale: | | ! |
| Bryan Klinck: | | ! |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Steve |
| Chris White: | | We are currenlty growing the strains now to be ready. |
| Steve Gale: | | platinum? |
| Chris White: | | Oh, it's a new program we started this year. We release 2 new strains every 2 months. It's a way to bring out new and interesting strains, that goes along with the season. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Bryan |
| Bryan Klinck: | | WLP565 - was that cultured from a specific brewery's strain? If so, whose? |
| Chris White: | | It is from a Saison brewery, but for various reasons we don't release the name of the brewery. It is a large Saison producer, and a nice strain. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Fair enough - thanks! |
| Steve Gale: | | ? |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Steve T |
| Steve/Atl: | | First off, thanx for joining us, Chris - we are delighted to have you here to pick your brain. I will start you off with a simple, non-controversial quest: |
| Chris White: | | Thanks! |
| Steve/Atl: | | How important is aeration vs cell count? (ie, is it better to step up to a 1+ qt starter or place more concern on getting the O2 lvl up in my wort?) |
| Chris White: | | Oxygen is exremly important. The more you use, the better/faster fermentation. Focus on more aeration by using an aeration stone vs. cell count. Aeration will increase the cell count in your wort. |
| Steve/Atl: | | ! (followup) |
| Bryan Klinck: | | ! |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Steve T |
| Steve/Atl: | | Thx |
| Steve/Atl: | | So, if we are hell-bent on stepping up our vials from you, :-) what is a reasonable sized starter to work with? |
| Chris White: | | Startes are never a bad idea, you just need to be careful. If you make a starter, one pint to 2 liters will work well, depending on the type of beer you are making. If it is just to wake up the yeast, use a pint. If you want to cold lager from the beginning of fermentation, use 2 liters. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Steve G is ready now, GA Steve, you're up next Bryan |
| Steve Gale: | | Several years back I took a course with the AOB. The person who taught it told us you could repitch 5-6 times before risking genertic drift. A brewer from a local brewery told me he repitches up to 20 times. A brewer who was a guest here a while back said he repitches up to 80 times. What is your take on safe repitching practices? |
| Chris White: | | Repitching is how yeast is used in professional breweries, but homebrewing has it's unique challanges. Your usually brewing in a kitchen, and it very hard to seperate the good yeast from trub with homebrewing equipment... |
| Mark McAndrews: | | ? |
| Chris White: | | Also, you need to be using the yeast on a regular basis in order for it not to mutate. So homebrewers usually can re-pitch 2 or 3 times if your carefull. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Bryan, you're next Mark |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Followup on the aeration question... |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Is an aquarium pump with the airstone sufficient, or should we use pure O2 from a cylinder? |
| Chris White: | | aquarium pump will work, just run it for 20 min. after pitching. If pure O2, just use 10-30 sec. bursts for a few minutes. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Mark, |
| Chris White: | | Your looking for 10ppm O2. |
| Mark McAndrews: | | What about pitching directly onto the yeast cake from a prior batch? I use a settling bucket to remove the cold break so have less 'spooge' accumulated on the bottom of the fermentor. I will often brew 4 times in 2 weeks just transfering to secondary then siphoning the new wort onto the yeast cake. Takes some of the hassle out of reusing yeast. |
| Chris White: | | I hear this a lot, but it sounds like an unsanitary process, and one that would be very hard to control. I've never heard of a professional brewery doing this, but several homebrewers. |
| Mark McAndrews: | | ? (followup) |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Mark |
| Mark McAndrews: | | I've tried to convince myself that the large population of yeast ovewhelms the potential contamination -- is this just an optomistic rationalization? |
| Steve/Atl: | | ? |
| Chris White: | | Depends on what is in your beer. For the most part, that will probably be okay. But if there is a contamination, it can already be to the point where it will contribute to the flavor. |
| Mark McAndrews: | | I do taste the current beer before repitching to test for clear contamination. |
| James: | | ? |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Steve T |
| Steve/Atl: | | I will defer to James, since he hasn't asked a Q yet. (I'll go after him) |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | OK, Ga James |
| James: | | I'm curious about the difference in packaging between you and your major compitition, I would think that A foil oxygen barrier would be better than a clear plastic tube? |
| Chris White: | | The plastic tubes are very industructable. We are also able to fill them with a sanitary filler, but the foil bag is a good package. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Steve, again |
| James: | | Thanks. |
| Steve/Atl: | | How do you obtain your yeasts? Do you have to purchase them from the "owners", or can you simply slant them from a sample and then isolate the strain? |
| MikeH: | | ? |
| Chris White: | | Each strain has it's own story. Most of the ale stains have been personally collected by me in England. Most of the lager strains are bought from yeast banks in Germany, and some are sent to us. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Mike |
| Steve/Atl: | | Thx |
| Bryan KlinckA: | | ? |
| MikeH: | | I have a vial of your yeast with a 11/15 exp date? What happens if I use it past this time? |
| Chris White: | | The yeast is going to be good for ~1 year, but we want to give you the freshest possible yeast. After the expiration date, you probably should make a starter. |
| MikeH: | | thanks |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Bryan |
| Bryan Klinck: | | I know of two methods for using lager yeast. Either you pitch at ~70F, wait for fermentation to start, and then chill down to lagering temperatures, or you make a sizeable starter (~2 liters) and pitch at lagering temperatures. Which do you recommend for homebrewers? GA |
| Chris White: | | Both methods work well,and brewers are split on this, even in Germany, we recomend starting at 70, getting good fermentation, and then lowering. We have found the ester levels come out the same as when pitching cold, but again, some brewers swear by pitching cold. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | ! |
| Steve/Atl: | | very interesting! |
| Steve Gale: | | ? |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Steve G |
| Steve Gale: | | I notice your viles need to be brought to room temp a few hours before pitching. Considering the temperature variation that can happen during shipping, would you be concerned about a vile that has spent a few days in the mail? |
| Chris White: | | As long as they don't get warm (>90F) they are okay... |
| Steve Gale: | | I was going to buy one from a shop in texas! |
| Chris White: | | We ship the yeast to the stores in styrofoam coolers, with many ice packs, and most of the stores do mail order from there, and it is very succesfull. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | ! |
| Steve Gale: | | thanks! |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Bryan |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Followup on lagering. What about ketone levels, especially diacetyl? GA |
| Chris White: | | We have not found diaceyl levels to vary between warm pitched and cold pitched wort. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Interesting - thanks! |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | How important is cold break regarding yeast nutrition? |
| Steve/Atl: | | ! |
| Chris White: | | Cold break can be benificial. Many brewers remove it, but it can be healthy for the yeast. Also serves as nucleation sites for scrubbing CO2 out of solution faster. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Steve T |
| Steve/Atl: | | continuning with the lagering and diacetyl - what procedure do you recommend for diacetyl rests? |
| James: | | ? |
| Mark McAndrews: | | ? followup |
| Chris White: | | For diacetyl rests, warm the fermentation to ~65 when there are still a couple of points to go in the fermenation. Let it sit there for 2-4 days, then lower back down. This gives the yeast a chance to reabsorb the diacetyl. Don't need to do with ales because they are already at this fermenation temperature, but still let it rest for a couple of days after fermenation. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA James, you're next Mark |
| Steve/Atl: | | Thx. I did a diacetyl rest on my last beer and ended up w/ some esteriness, but I don't think it was from the diacetyl rest now. |
| Chris White: | | It should not produce too many esters because the fermentation rate should be slow enough. |
| Steve/Atl: | | thx |
| James: | | I was going to let Ron ask this one, but looks like he will be a no show so here goes. What is the difference between dry and liquid yeast? Besides the fact that one is wet, and the other is not. How about those little wort digesting microbes, is there really a difference in them? |
| Chris White: | | The difference is in the growth process and the further processing. Dry yeast is generaly grown in simple sugars, with enough yeast to last 2-3 years. We make much smaller batches, use all malt, and have less processing... |
| Steve/Atl: | | ? |
| Chris White: | | The drying process can introduce wild yeast and bacteria. Our liquid yeast won't have any wild yeast or bacteria. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Mark... you're next Steve.. wheres Ron? |
| Mark McAndrews: | | You mentioned the cold break provided additional nucleation sites to scrub CO2 out of solution. Is removing CO2 important for yeast health? |
| James: | | Thanks. |
| Chris White: | | Yes. Over 30 PSI is damaging to yeast, so it is best to keep CO2 down. The better you remove it, the faster the fermenation. This is one reason that open fermetations go so quicky. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Steve |
| Mark McAndrews: | | Typical homebrewer w/ an airlock shouldn't have any problems then, should they? |
| Chris White: | | You can. Stir the fermentation (gently) once in a while, you'll notice a lot of CO2 break out. You can also leave the primary open (cover with foil), and apply airlock when it starts to slow down. |
| Mark McAndrews: | | Thanks. |
| Steve/Atl: | | I realize that you must be pretty proud of all your products, but is there one or two that you feel really excel at producing a particular style? (ie, do you have a favorite?) |
| Chris White: | | My favorites are Burton (WLP023 ) and Kolsch (WLP029)... Burton is a great traditional top cropping strain, very complex and Kolsch is very clean, ales can taste like lagers. Gives a crisp finish. |
| Mark McAndrews: | | Rita would be proud |
| Steve/Atl: | | ack! Kolcsh! |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | What's the best strain for an American Pilsner, like uh... excuse me, Bud |
| Mark McAndrews: | | ? |
| Chris White: | | WLP840, American Lager yeast. It will also be full time starting Dec. 4th. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Mark |
| Mark McAndrews: | | I've had difficulty trying to ferment high gravit brews (imperial stout & barely wine, both > 1.080 OG). I've always started w/ a large initial population of yeast and tried to aerate thoroughly. In order of importance what are the keys to high gravity brews? |
| Chris White: | | Aeration (hard to dissolve O2 in high gravity wort- you can get more in by lowering the temperature)...Yeast count and heath. The yeast need to have very strong cell walls for high gravity brewing, ... |
| Mark McAndrews: | | Is there a point where O2 can be toxic to yeast? If so, is it really a concern for homebrewers? |
| Chris White: | | So use fresh yeast, and pitch 2x times normal yeast. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | ! |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Bryan |
| Chris White: | | Yes, on O2, but it's really difficult to dissolve more than 10ppm unless under pressure or constant aeration. Neither of these priciples should apply. |
| Steve/Atl: | | ? |
| Bryan Klinck: | | When making a starter for a high gravity brew, should it be the same 'strength' as the intended wort? GA |
| JamesA: | | ? |
| Chris White: | | Well, the ideal is to make one starter at 1040, then bump up top the gravity you want. .. |
| Chris White: | | But if you can only do one starter, use 1040, maximize cell health. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Steve, your next James |
| Bryan Klinck/MA: | | !! |
| Steve/Atl: | | does Bryan have a followup? |
| Bryan Klinck: | | yep. |
| Steve/Atl: | | GA |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Ga Bryan |
| Bryan Klinck: | | So, pitch the tube to a a pint starter at 1.040, then into another pint at 1/060, and finally to a quart at 1.080? (total starter = 2 qts) |
| Chris White: | | That's one trick wine makers use to ferment high gravity. Your program would work well. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Thanks - had a problem in the past with a high gravity brew. |
| Bill Riel: | | ? |
| Steve/Atl: | | Sort of a point of curiousity that I thought I'd pass on to you, but our last conf was with Randy Thiel, the brewer for Ommegang in upstate NY, and he said that they brew their beers between 77-80 deg! Obviously a bizarre Belgian strain, but nevertheless the highest ferm temp I've ever encountered! |
| Steve/Atl: | | ga |
| Chris White: | | Chimay ferments at 75F (there are lots of rumors about the acutal temp, but this is it)... |
| Bill Riel: | | Clayton Cone of Lallemand recommended aerating your beer at 12-14 hours after pitching. do you have any thoughts or recommendations on this? |
| Chris White: | | And many belgian beers are fermented warmer than most ales. Belgain beers are different in many ways. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA Bill, and welcome to the forum! |
| Steve/Atl: | | So do you recommend fermenting your Trappist strain at 75 deg? That won't render bubblegum? |
| Chris White: | | It is a technique that is not done much in the U.S., but it can be very effective. Just don't aerate for a long time, a quick burst, stir carboy, and keep it in fermentation cycle. Your only trying to give the yeast enough oxygen to keep the cell walls heathy, not take it out ofa anaerobic fermentation. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Oops, losing control of formal mode, ready to take it over Steve G ? I'll still be here and capturing the discussion for the library. |
| Steve Gale: | | sure |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | GA, Steve will now moderate |
| Bryan Klinck: | | ? |
| Steve Gale: | | OK, is Bill the next up? |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | I'll continue welcoming newcomers |
| Steve Gale: | | Nope, I guess Bryan? |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Yep, it's Bill |
| Steve Gale: | | OK, GA Bill... |
| Bill Riel: | | would love to be able to say that I love your product, but I've never had the opportunity to try it. I'm posting from Canada (from the west coast - Victoria, BC) and it seems that we're quite limited in what we can obtain here. Should I be lobbying my local homebrew shops or should I try online? |
| Chris White: | | Both. We do sell in Canada (also Australia and Europe), but mostly in Ontario. We work with a lot of small brewers in B.C., but few homebrew stores. But they can order from us. |
| James: | | ? |
| Steve Gale: | | OK, GA Bryan |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Do you think that yeast nutrients/energizers are useful in a homebrew situation? If so, what sort of nutrient do you recommend? GA |
| Chris White: | | Yes. Wort has all of the nessessary nutrients, but you can help out the fermentation. Use a complex nutrient, one with amino acids, cofactors, and phosphate can be especially good for high gravity beers and lagers. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | What about cell walls (yeast "ghosts")? |
| Chris White: | | Can be good, used more in the wine industry, problem is they do not have much that is "usable" by the yeast. |
| Steve/Atl: | | ? |
| Steve Gale: | | any follow ups? |
| Steve Gale: | | OK, GA James |
| James: | | Earlier you mentioned the benefits of leaving the cold break, is this just for Ales, or would this be true of Lager also? |
| Chris White: | | More true with lagers, they need all the help they can get. |
| Bill Riel: | | ? |
| Steve Gale: | | Bill, follow up? |
| James: | | I just made my first lager about a month ago, I chilled it down then racked it off the trub before aireating and pitching, did I mak a major error? |
| Chris White: | | No, not major. It's a controversial topic. I happen to be on the pro-cold break side. |
| James: | | OK Thanks. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | ! |
| Steve Gale: | | follow up? |
| Bryan Klinck: | | yep. |
| Steve Gale: | | GA Bryan |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | ? |
| Wayne Havens: | | ? |
| Bryan Klinck: | | So, you would favor a counterflow chiller, which puts the cold break in the primary fermenter, over an immersion chiller, which leaves it in the brewpot? GA |
| Chris White: | | Yes. But an immersion chiller is so easy... |
| James: | | Sneaky! |
| Steve/Atl: | | here, here! |
| Steve Gale: | | All set on this one? |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Yes! He shoots, he scores! |
| Chris White: | | A counterflow is more sanitary also. You can have less O2 exposure. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | YES! |
| Steve Gale: | | The crowd goes wild!! GA Steve T |
| Steve/Atl: | | At the end of an extended lagering, say 8 weeks since primary ferm, do you recommend adding more yeast before attempting bottle conditioning, or should the yeast be ok? |
| Chris White: | | If you don't add more yeast, you can sometimes have problems. It usually works without adding more, but to be safe, I would add yeast at this point. You only need 1/5-1/10 of what you need in primary. |
| Steve/Atl: | | thx. |
| Steve Gale: | | Follow ups? |
| Mark McAndrews: | | ? (bottle conditioning) |
| Steve Gale: | | OK, GA Mark then we go to Bill |
| Mark McAndrews: | | Does the yeast do much during bottle conditioning after the initial carbonation? I've often wondered whether or not bottle conditioned beers have longer shelf life due to the yeast? |
| Chris White: | | Yes they can. Yeast will scrub out any O2 picked up during bottling, that is one reson homebrew can have a long shelf life. But you just have the purity issues with having yeast in the bottle. If there is any bacteria or wild yeast in the yeast slurry, it will build up in the bottle. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Intersting point! |
| Steve Gale: | | Good follow up Mark! GA Bill |
| Bill Riel: | | First, I apologize for jumping in out of order recently - I'm new at this stuff and I got a little over eager! |
| Steve Gale: | | Youre doing fine! |
| Steve/Atl: | | off with his head! |
| Bill Riel: | | Apologies if this was answered earlier, but, would you recommend pitching a lager at fermentation temps or at a higher temperatures then slowing reducing? |
| Chris White: | | There was some before, but I recomend pitching at 70 and lowering once fermenation begins. |
| Steve Gale: | | Bill, for more detail a transcipt will become available. You can review the session from the start |
| Steve/Atl: | | ? |
| Bill Riel: | | thanks! |
| Steve Gale: | | GA Ralph |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | I've noticed that fermentation temp has a great effect on the character of Weizen yeast. If I ferment cooler, the clove is more pronounced but at a warmer ferment, the bananna takes over. What would be the optimum temp to get a balance between these essential characters? |
| Chris White: | | That is very true for Hefe yeast. 66 gives you clove, 72 bannana, 68-70 is usually a good balance. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Thanks, I seem to always miss it |
| Steve Gale: | | OK, GA Wayne |
| Wayne Havens: | | Do you have any Lambic strains available? And if so what is the recommended fermentation temp.? |
| Chris White: | | It is very hard for homebrewers to keep a consistent fermentation temp. For lambic, we don't have any strains at the moment... |
| Steve/Atl: | | (want some?) |
| Chris White: | | Our current policy is not to cultivate any bacteria in our lab. But it can be done, so we may change that in the future. |
| Steve Gale: | | GA Steve |
| Steve/Atl: | | Have you gotten any feedback of successful nonstandard/out of style uses for any of your yeasts? (eg, someone used a wit yeast to make a really tasty porter) |
| Chris White: | | I think the best ones are using lagers for ale fermentation. A good one is WLP810, San Fran. lager for a porter. |
| Steve/Atl: | | cool. thx. |
| Steve Gale: | | OK, the back log is caught up...heres one from me! |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | ? |
| Steve Gale: | | I appreciate that you cannot mention the source of your saison yeast, but can you describe its character? |
| Steve/Atl: | | ? |
| Chris White: | | It is an earthy, peppery fermentation profile... phenolics are present when fermenting under 75F. Medium to low flocculation. Also can be pretty spicey. |
| Steve Gale: | | What kind of fermentation temperature can it take? |
| Chris White: | | It is best 70-75. It knocks out under 66, so be carefull on the low end. |
| Steve Gale: | | thanks! GA Ralph |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Several of our members have had good success storing yeast in distilled water with sucrose for extended peiods, Since Joel is absent, I'm asking this. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | ? |
| Chris White: | | We have done a lot of tests on this, and we have been dissapointed. We have found an unsatisfactory mutation rate after 4 months, but we are still looking at it. |
| Steve/Atl: | | ? |
| Steve Gale: | | Steve, your question is related? |
| Steve/Atl: | | sort of... |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | OK, Joel will be dissappointed GA |
| Steve Gale: | | GA Steve |
| Steve/Atl: | | I am going to take it 1 step further than water and sucrose: What do you know about storing yeast at room temp in distilled water? I have heard of some very good results, but the quantity of actual results I am talking about are very limited. |
| Chris White: | | Oh sorry, I thought that was the last question. For the water/sucrose, we don't have any data. |
| Steve Gale: | | GA Bryan |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Back to nutrients. I noticed that on your web page you sell your own nutrient direct to craft brewers. Is it also available to home brewers via their usual suppliers? GA |
| Chris White: | | Yes, homebrew stores can get it. For caft brewers, it is sold in quantities for 5 barrels...homebrewers get it in vials, for ~ 20 batches. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Great - I'll have to nag my supplier about it! |
| Steve/Atl: | | cool! |
| Steve Gale: | | Back log gone - me again! |
| Steve Gale: | | I toured a saison brewery and saw a thermometer on the fermentation tank. It read 90F! I guess the pros in Belgium can do that, can we in our kitchens? |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | ? |
| Chris White: | | Sure, you have a lot of leway with Belgian beers. Some use our Trappist at 90, but I think that is high. |
| Steve Gale: | | OK, GA Ralph |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | I used to maintain a large bank of yeast cultured from bottle conditioned beers. |
| James: | | ? |
| Steve/Atl: | | ? |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | I'm planning to start again. What bottled beers are best for this? |
| Chris White: | | Did you use any of the strains? |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Yes, sucessfully but it was years ago... |
| Chris White: | | Some beers work, some don't. It's a game. They also can have a lot of wild yeast/bacteria. I'd be interested to hear which ones worked well. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | I had good results with some, fair results with others GA |
| Steve Gale: | | GA James |
| James: | | Your vials of yeast show a definate inerface, solid stuff on the bottom, liquid on the top. Is this liquid phase wort, nutrient, or just a seperated out segement of the yeast? |
| Chris White: | | We do package the yeast with some trub, and that sits on the interface. Yeast pack on the bottom, and wort/nutrient on top. |
| Bill Riel: | | ? |
| Steve Gale: | | GA Steve |
| Steve/Atl: | | As we are approaching the end of our alotted time, I just want to thank you again for "visiting" with us. You are welcome to join us in the forum anytime, and we have a wide range of brewers here that would be delighted to try anything you need feedback on! :-) Now for a question: do you have any recommendations for beginner brewers that would like to produce lager-style beers, but cannot produce environments below, say 65 deg? |
| Chris White: | | I would use WLP029 Kolsch, it will come very close... |
| Steve/Atl: | | It wouldn't give you a winey character? |
| Chris White: | | or WLP810 San Fran lager. It is very clean at the higher fermentation temps. |
| Steve Gale: | | GA Bill |
| Bill Riel: | | I have heard of homebrewers freezing yeast with glycerine and water for longer term storage (the solution stays liquid at freezing temps). Have you any comment or criticism of this technique? |
| Chris White: | | No, not the kolsch strain. |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Again, Rita would be proud. |
| Chris White: | | Freezing is the best long term, but to work it needs to be cyrogenic. We freeze our yeast at -70C. Yeast die quickly in normal freezers. |
| Steve Gale: | | Someone on my website asked if anyone knew with any certain if Rochefort and Westvleteren bottle with the same yeast used in fermentation. Do you know? |
| Chris White: | | No for Rochefort. I've never had any luck with Westvleteren either. |
| Mark McAndrews: | | ? |
| Steve Gale: | | Tough beers! |
| Steve Gale: | | GA Mark |
| Mark McAndrews: | | As I mentioned earlier I pitch onto the prior batches' yeast cake. I do this not to save money, but because I assumed the quicker start to fermentation is an advantage. Since my labor costs are roughly $500 per batch I really don't care about my yeast costs. Would I be better off using a fresh yeast pack w/ every batch and having a greater lag time or pitching onto the larger yeast cake and haveing a quicker start, I haven't had any noticable infections yet. |
| Chris White: | | $500? It is better to use fresh yeast, or collect the yeast, inspect it, clean your fermentors, and then reuse. |
| Steve Gale: | | OK, I guess we should start wrapping up, anyone have one last question? |
| Bryan Klinck: | | ? |
| Mark McAndrews: | | The question is more the quick start vs. the chance for nasties to get a foothold w/ a lower initial population |
| Steve/Atl: | | ? |
| Steve Gale: | | Bryan, GA after Dr. Whites reply... |
| Chris White: | | You can have a quick start with fresh yeast (~12 hours). If anything grows in that time frame, there is trouble in the brewery... |
| Mark McAndrews: | | ok. thanks. |
| Chris White: | | A good brewery should be able to have clean wort for 3-5 days after cooling. |
| Steve Gale: | | OK Bryan, a last quick one!! |
| Bryan Klinck: | | New line of questioning: Do you still home brew? If so, so you have anything interesting brewing? |
| Chris White: | | A little bit. I made a cider this weekend. I'm a member of a local club QUAFF, which just won California homebrew club of the year. |
| Steve Gale: | | congrats!! Well, its 10:00 EST, we should let our guest go have dinner! |
| Chris White: | | Thanks, Anchor gives a party every year for the winner. |
| Steve Gale: | | Oh man!! |
| Steve/Atl: | | cool! |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Using WPL775, Ipresume? |
| Wayne Havens: | | Awesome!!! |
| Steve/Atl: | | LOL!!! |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | D*mn! I missed the TRASH cider pressing thios year |
| Steve Gale: | | Hey, what an outstanding guest, eh? |
| Steve/Atl: | | doesn't sound real appetizing... Cheers! |
| Steve Gale: | | Dr. White, I hope it was good for you too! |
| Chris White: | | Thanks, this was fun. Very good questions. And yes- I did use 775. Feel free to email me cwhite@whitelabs.com. |
| Bill Riel: | | Thanks, Chris |
| Steve Gale: | | Thanks you so much for the session! |
| Steve/Atl: | | Thanx!!! Outstanding conf! |
| Wayne Havens: | | Thanks!!!!!! |
| Steve Gale: | | Bill, its always nice to see a new name! |
| Steve/Atl: | | Thanx for making the arrangements, James! |
| James: | | Thanks Dr. White. |
| Bryan Klinck: | | Thanks, Chris! Great conference! And thanks to James for organizing it! |
| Steve Gale: | | Yes, James - cracking job!! |
| Ralph Colaizzi: | | Thank you Dr White! You have been a great speaker and we hope you will continue to stop in and visit our forum |
| Wayne Havens: | | applause |
