| Neil Tolciss/NY | | OK, formal mode time... |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | To be recognized, type? |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | GA Bryan |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | What are we drinking. GA |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | ! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Nothing particular yet. Steve G GA |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | I was going to suggest we wait till 7:30 for sampling, give Jim and whover a chance to get here |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | anyone else with a question? |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | ! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | GA STeve GAle |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Garrett, at a festival a few years ago I saw kegs were marked for OG and ABV. The numbers suggested these brewers were fermenting down very far. Is this your experience with Brit beer? Oh, this was a UK festival |
| Garrett Oliver | | Generally speaking, yes. I've often been surprised at the attenuation of foreign beers, particularly the Belgians, which are amazingly attenuated. Who wants to guess the A.E. of Chimay Blue? |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | ! |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | 85? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Guesses don't need recognition |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | I would guess it is the candi sugar.... |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | AE, is that a finishing gravity thing? |
| Joel King/MD | | .990 |
| Joel King/MD | | apparent extract |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | if so, I guess 1007 |
| Garrett Oliver | | 1.5 Plato, or about 1006. Very good Steve! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Ooh, one for me! |
| Joel King/MD | | ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Joel, GA |
| Joel King/MD | | What big surprises did you experience going from amateur to professional brewer? Where do the two differ greatly in ways you didn't expect? |
| Garrett Oliver | | Previous to visiting the brewery, I'd have guessed 1012 at least. |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | (bigger fermenters) |
| Joel King/MD | | arrrhhh.... |
| Garrett Oliver | | Frankly, the two differ in more ways than they're similar. On a bad day, every brewer feels like a glorified plumber. Or janitor. A lot of brewing is cleaning, and cleaning is no fun. And there's pressure, of course - you're only as good as your last pint. Here's one for you - I came in this morning, and the guy who picks up my spent grain ....hadn't. So I brewed two batches of IPA today, and had nowhere to put the spent grain - about two tons worth! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Garrett, did you see Joel's question? |
| Garrett Oliver | | Yes, I'm just slow, that's all. |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Sorry! |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | ! |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Steve Tuttle GA |
| Joel King/MD | | Thanks, GA |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Garrett, what is your fav beer - from Brooklyn and from someone else. (1 ea) |
| Garrett Oliver | | Right now? Our wheat beers (Blanche and Brooklyner-Weisse) and Saison Dupont. But if you ask me in an hour, my opinion may have changed... |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Bryan GA |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | I hear ya! |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | Garrett - do you have a particular preference for grains - floor malted? |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | (everybody really likes Georgia here!) |
| Garrett Oliver | | I do like Beeston's floor-malted Maris Otter, but I'm not sure how much stock I put in floor malting itself - I think it has more to do with the genetics of the barley. We don't use a single base malt, so we have no silo. For base malts, we use Scottish Maris Otter, East Anglian Pale Malt, Canadian Pils Malt, German Pils malt, etc. It depends on the beer, and flavor is paramount. |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | Thanks - GA |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Steve G GA |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Brit bars tend to give decent info on their tap beer, ABV is usually marked. Ive been surprized to find few IPA that reach 4%, Im not sure Ive seen one that surpassed 4%. Seems pretty untraditional. Have you noticed this too, and can you comment on why that would be? |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | ? |
| Garrett Oliver | | I participated in the British Guild of Beer Writers conference on IPA in 1994. I came into a room full of senior British brewers, many of them running breweriues older than this country, and started tossing bombs. I told them that they did a disservice to their own wonderful brewing heritage sticking the name "IPA" onto weak bitters, and that they should be ashamed. there was much harrumphing at the time, but within 18 months, some less timid IPA started to appear. Still, we've got Young's Special London Ale, which is a direct throwback. Many British brewers refuse to believe that people will drink real IPAs. At the same time, the supermarkets are cleaning up on Belgians, so go figure. |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Garrett, are you finished with your answer? |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | man, thats nuts! |
| Garrett Oliver | | You know better than that - do I ever stop talking? go ahead. |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | I just don't want to step on your toes |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Captain Tuttle, you're up! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | you mean boots! |
| Joel King/MD | | Waders. |
| Garrett Oliver | | I've got steel toes and shanks in these boots - don't worry about it. |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | I was wondeing if you know of any place in the US that is doing cask ales well. The only exposure I've had has been Toronados in SF and some local hand pumps. |
| Garrett Oliver | | Do you mean breweries or bars? In New york City, The Blind tiger ale House does a fine job. The biggest problem is turnover - as soon as you show someone how to handle your beer, they're off to the next job, and you have to train someone else. Cask ale still works best under the tied-house system, where the authority of the brewhouse extends into the cellar. |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | ? |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Yes. Moreso bars, tho. Thx. |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | My turn, Have you ever tried/or seen the benefit of using open vat fermentation? The only brewery I knnow in the US that used it is Shipyard, with its direct British ties. GA |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | (typing is thirsty work...) |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | (speaking of which: I'm thirsty - are we there yet?) |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Steve Gale/NJ is the last question before tasting |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | (Yay!) |
| Garrett Oliver | | There are a few benefits, but they are usually outweighed by other factors. One benefit is yeast health - you are collecting a better proportion of healthy cells. The people at Schneider claim that open fermentation gives better results aroma-wise for weissbier as well. but in most modern breweries, there are too many risks. Cask beer, however, is produced with the expectation of a very short lifespan for the beer, and this is another factor. |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Thanks, Steve G GA |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | White Garrett is typing this up may I suggest we crack a Brown |
| Garrett Oliver | | By the way, Manhattan Brewing Company used open fermentation, so I'm quite familiar with it. there still a part of me that misses skimming yeast with a paddle... |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | ? |
| Garrett Oliver | | what am I supposed to be typing up? By the way, everyone, my shift key is stuck - I'm not on an e.e.cummings kick or something. |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | We lost Steve Gale, but his memory rremains. Should we go for the Brown? |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Sure! |
| Joel King/MD | | Wish I could, all I could find was the stout - but what a find! |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | Locked and loaded - ready to roll! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Steve G GA while we open our Brown ALes |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | yum! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | I was just going to ask if we could open our Browns! |
| Garrett Oliver | | In the not-too-distant future, TotalBeer will deliver the whole tasting to your door in advance, so despair not! |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | I should have ordered BCS from you today!. Steve T, GA |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Can you tell us a little about the Brown? I remember when I first got on the forum, people were already talking about Brooklyn Brown! (many! yrs ago! BTW, it is terrific!) |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Man, this is a beauty |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | The malt profile is outstanding! I don't find this on many beers not of Germanic/Slavic origin. |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | This is all-American ingredients, isn't it? |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | ! |
| Garrett Oliver | | Brooklyn Brown Ale (BBA) is pretty much the original American Brown Ale. It was first produced as a holiday beer in 1990, and did so well that it became permanent. O.G. 15, (1060), A.E. 3.5 (1014). The ingredients are largely American, but there's also some Belgian malts in there. BBA was one of the first dark beers on the market that actually tasted of roasted malts. Not quite a porter, but you definitely taste the roast with your eyes closed. Though Anchor Porter must be given its props... |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Fritz thanx you... |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Steve Gale/NJGA |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | The bottle calls it "Pre-Prohibition" Why? |
| Garrett Oliver | | The point being that before Prohibition, beer were far fuller-flavored. Also, many beer styles were virtually wiped out by Prohibition, particularly ale styles. Post-prohibition, everyone went running to the cash cow of adjunct lager. |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | "adjunct lager" - and here that AHA called that "American Premium"! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Its not from an old recipe or anything then |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | My follow up on Steve's point...Any historical research done when choosing your styles? |
| M McAndrews/IA | | ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Mark, follow-up or new question? |
| Garrett Oliver | | No, though Brooklyn Lager takes its cues from old Vienna Lager recipes, BBA is a modern creation. It bears some relation to some lighter porters and to some milds as well. As to the question of research, some of our beers come directly out of historical research, such as East India Pale Ale. |
| M McAndrews/IA | | New ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | any more follow-ups before Mark? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Mark GA |
| M McAndrews/IA | | After I swallow the front and sides of my toungue are just tingling w/ hop flavor. The flavor is intense, but it is flavor, not bitterness. It is also not as rough as dry hopping -- is this a big addition of flavor hops? GA |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | ! |
| Garrett Oliver | | BBA is dry-hopped, but i think there's enough malt there to balance things out, and the hops are chosen for a harmonious character. There's a big late addition as well. Part of the perception of bitterness is also the roast malt acidity. a common fault in dark beers is underestimating the acidity of roasted malts. |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | ? follow up |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Bryan GA |
| Joel King/MD | | ? |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | How many IBU's - without revealing any trade secrets, of course :-) |
| M McAndrews/IA | | :) |
| Garrett Oliver | | 32 IBU's. But again, it doesn't tell the whole story. There's the malts and the water chemistry. In Burton a few months ago, I met the person who's in charge of QC for Guinness worldwide. She's an American! and I asked her what the BU's of drught Guinness were. She told me "35 to 45". When i asked her why the big range, she said that for perception of bitterness in Guinness, their research shoed that the roast was more important than the BU's, so they really work on the roast, and let the BU's float a bit. |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | 1 more swallow... |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | Good point - thanks. GA |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Steve T is this a follow up or new. SAme Q to Joel |
| Joel King/MD | | New |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | just a comment that req no answer |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Steve GA, then Joel jump right in |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | (that's why I used the !) |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Just wanted to interject that it has been *way* too long since I had a BBA! This thing is superb! What a classy brew! I am going to have to be nicer to my NY/NJ buddies! |
| Joel King/MD | | Any thumbrules for allowing for roast malt acidity / bitterness when forumlating recipies?
|
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | ga |
| Joel King/MD | | Make that formulating recipes... |
| Garrett Oliver | | Build flavor right from your base malts on up. Part of a roast flavor is a "toasted" malt flavor, so if that flavor is in your base malts, you won't have to build it with colored malts later, risking overacidity. Caramel and crystal malts can easily be overdone, so be careful. black barley is great for building in a clean espresso-like bite. BBA has eight different malts in it (it's a pain to mill in), but each malt has a job to do. |
| Joel King/MD | | GA |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | ! |
| Garrett Oliver | | By the way, in case anyone wasn't here at the beginning, i'm afraid i have to run in about twenty minutes (I saw something that said 6:30 to 9:30 - no dinner for the poor brewer!) |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | I, too haven't had BBA for a while. Feels like more body than before. Has rhe recipie been adjusted over time? |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | ? |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Can we get a quick rundown of EIPA's stats? |
| Garrett Oliver | | Oh, yes. A few times. It's been a while, though. |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Should we switch to the EIPA, then? |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | please |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Steve G on EIPA, GA |
| Joel King/MD | | (...I'll go get another stout while I can still walk...) |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Ive come to expect a greater English influence in east coast beers than west. Your IPA is alot less in-your-face hoppy than west coast versions of the same style. Would you say yours in more authentic? |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | ? |
| Garrett Oliver | | Let me make sure first that everyone has relatively fresh IPA. Someone sent me some out-of-code IPA that he's found somewhere recently, and i don't know what someone had done to it, but it was unamusing. East India Pale Ale is brewed from all British malt, O.G. 16.5, A.E. 3.0, 42 IBU's, dry-hopped. It's hard to know what's authentic when the original beer underwent that sea voyage. What i would say is that the in-your-face hopping seems historically impossible, so i think that a more balanced but stronger beer is a faithful representation. and remember that IPAs probably didn't taste all that bitter - they were always drunk warm. there are no cellars in Calcutta. |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Steve T on EIPA? if yes, just GA |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | What is the ABV on EIPA? I would be surprised if it is anythign less than 6-6.5%. |
| Garrett Oliver | | It's about 6.8% a.b.v. |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | damn, I'm good. |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | anyone else on EIPA?... |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | ! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | If not, those who are ready for BCS, go to it!... |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | ? Yes |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Steve T |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | As a general comment, could we squeak in some details on BCS and Monster before Garrett has to leave, and then we could continue drinking? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Garrett, can you answer that one?GA |
| Garrett Oliver | | Keep drinking IPA and you won't be. Steve Hindy, the president of the brewery has a habit of having an "IPA evening" every once in a while, and then complaining to me about the a.b.v.. I tell him that it's not the beer's fault that we're getting old! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | NO way! |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | I am going to need assistance walking upstairs! BEFORE MONSTER! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Bryan, post your question as the last one so Garrett can answer before we have to sign off |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | Sorry - I'll pass to go along with Steve's suggestion. GA |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | What a trooper! |
| Garrett Oliver | | I've covered BCS, but feel free to ask more. Monster has an O.G. of 24.5, and an A.E. of 3.0, brewed from a blend of Maris Otter and Halcyon malt, all British. |
| Joel King/MD | | ? |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | ! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Garrett, yor answers are getting cut off on my screen. ARe you still answering? |
| Garrett Oliver | | Monster is relatively young, but should age well. It is very dry and somewhat spritous with out being hot. It definintely needs to be served at cellar temp, though. |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Joel GA |
| Joel King/MD | | Where is there most room for improvement in your average homebrew? |
| Garrett Oliver | | I'm still here. Restraint, and yeast health, I'd say. The best homebrews, and commercial brews I've had have some degree of subtlety to them. It's easy to pour on the hops or the roasted malts - anyone can do that. The trick is in finding a special balance where everything works together. Aside from that, many homebrewers pitch less than half the yeast that they should. Your fermentation should start within 12 hours. If you can't see it by then, your lag phase is too long. |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | ? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Let's all give Garrett a round for coming out tonite to talk to us! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Damn, where is Ron when you want to dis hm??? |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | Hear , Hear! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Thanks a million Garrett! |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Juat want to say thanx so much for coming. Your knowledge of beer history is only rivaled by your mastery of brewing. I am amazed at the brewers I talk to at local brewpubs that have no real clue about beer styles or history... |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | Clap, clap |
| Joel King/MD | | You've been a professional for years now - when was the last time you brewed at home? And have you tried dry yeast in the last five years? |
| Tim Boyer/OH | | Thanks, Garrett! |
| Joel King/MD | | Thanks, Garett! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Joel, you die-hard! |
| Joel King/MD | | Just had to try... |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | LOL |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | Joel, leave Ron alone!
|
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | can someone please carry me upstairs? |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Garrett, you were excellent |
| Joel King/MD | | I wanted to get an OFFICIAL opinion!!! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | GArrett,keep your boots on, it's raining outside! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | GO EAT SOMETHING!!! |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | And it's getting pretty deep inside... |
| M McAndrews/IA | | Thanks, it was a very informative evening |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Ah, that's what I forgot - FOOD! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | we need our best brewers to live! |
| Joel King/MD | | Try Garrett's stout - you won't need food - you can CHEW this stuff, it's so good! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Right - Beer IS food! |
| Garrett Oliver | | Thanks for having me. I haven't homebrewed for years - I inflict all my whims on the general public. Dried yeast. Oh, i don't think so.... |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Anyone enjoying a Monster? |
| Tim Boyer/OH | | I'd better log off and get my firewall back up. Thanks, everyone - _fascinating_ chat! |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | SOME of us don't have it! Ththtthphphphphptptptptp! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | It used to be made into ice cream |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Steve - dont have what??? I sent you a monster |
| Joel King/MD | | This stout would go well with some vanilla ice cream. |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | I'm scared to try the Monster - I am getting pretty well poluted on the EIPA! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | your loss! |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | I was replying to Joel - no BCS |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | You are gone, but with a smile on your face! |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | a very British barley wine |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | I'm really enjoying the stout (98-99) - it is a mouthful! |
| Garrett Oliver | | I just called for a chicken massamun curry - spicy. Perfect with a Schneider Weisse, which awaits me with open arms. Thanks and good night. Come visit us some time! |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Sounds terrific. I might jsut save it for a time when I can appreciate it better... |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | Great stuff, garrett! |
| Steve Tuttle/GA | | Thanx again! |
| Joel King/MD | | Mine is '99 - '00. |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Your the best - vthank you over and over |
| M McAndrews/IA | | I once attended a Rouge tasting w/ Sebbie Bueler (sp?) she said their porter made a great float w/ vanilla ice creame |
| Joel King/MD | | Believe you me, the guy with the stupid grin knocking on the glass wall leading to your brewery will be me. oops, missed him |
| Bryan Klinck/MA | | A Beer Beer float? |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | You know Sebbie? |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | I've been to the brewery twice for the Best of Brooklyn competition. Youe wre there this year, but I didn;t talk to you this tim |
| Joel King/MD | | IPA's do good floats also |
| Steve Gale/NJ | | Neil, wow. Youre hurtin! |
| Neil Tolciss/NY | | I'm cutting the log now |
